In this episode, we will hear a conversation between Lead of Alumni Enrichment, Sarah Weisbarth, and alumni Michelle Marshall. Michelle is a Professional Counselor at Missouri Baptist Children’s Home in St. Louis, MO. She’s been in the social service field for 22 years.
As part of her profession, she often listens to solve. But the class has changed that.
In the following conversation hear how she has implemented the skills into her professional life but also how it has had a profound effect on her personal life through times of confrontation and loss. These changes will ripple through generations.
Listen closely as they discuss the difference between accepting and embracing and Michelle explains how this new communication skill set has inspired her to become a facilitator for Our Community Listens.
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Adam:
Hello, and welcome to the, Our Community Listens Podcast. My name is Adam Salgat. In today’s episode, we’re going to hear a conversation, between our lead of alumni enrichment, Sarah Weisbarth, and alumni, Michelle Marshall.
Michelle is a professional counselor, at Missouri Baptist children’s Home, in St. Louis, Missouri. She’s been in the social service field, for 22 years. As part of her profession, she often listens to Solve, but the Our Community Listens training, has changed that.
In the following conversation, hear how she has implemented the skills, into her professional life, but also, how it has had a profound effect, on her personal life, through times of confrontation and loss. These changes will ripple through generations.
Listen closely, as they discuss the difference between accepting, and embracing. Michelle explains how this new communication skillset, has inspired her, to become a facilitator, for Our Community Listens.
Sarah:
Hey Michelle, I’m so glad to see you today. As we join together to have a conversation about your experiences with Our Community Listens. How are you doing today?
Michelle:
Doing great.
Sarah:
We talked a few weeks ago, about your experience with Our Community Listens, and I just feel like you have such a powerful story, such an applicable story in so many ways. That’s why we invited you on, to share that with our alumni.
It’s always inspiring for our alumni to hear how other alumni, are using the skills, and how it’s impacted their lives. But your story does even moves in additionally, with your profession, and you as a growing facilitator for Our Community Listens. I’m just looking forward to our conversation today.
Michelle:
I am looking forward as well.
Sarah:
Cool. If you could just start out by sharing with us. Really, how did you get introduced to Our Community Listens?
Michelle:
It’s interesting how it happened. I think back to a time where I had the privilege of not only living with my brother throughout my life at times, but also working with him, and so it’s interesting to me.
He used to always tell my supervisor, you need to send her to communication skills training. At that time I just would be like, no, I’m okay, I communicate well, you’re not understanding. That stayed with… my brother passed about three years ago, and that stayed to the back of my mind. Particularly, as it relates to communicating with my family. Through that loss, and just working through that, so communication really stood out to me.
Actually, through an organization that I worked with, a young lady shared about Our Community Listens, and my pastor talked to me directly and said, I really think this is something that you should attend, I’m attending, come along with me.
I went with her. Well, we signed up at the same time, ended up being in separate classes. That’s how I got to the training. Because when I read communication skills training, I realized, and I connected. This might be what my brother was talking about.
Sarah:
Right. Having that connection moment inspired you to take it.
Michelle:
Yes.
Sarah:
Now just asking a detail. Was this before, or after he had passed away.
Michelle:
This was after he passed, that this opportunity was presented to me. Like I said, when I was reading through the information, and I heard about communication skills, that really connected with me, and I was like, he always said this, maybe I need this.
Then particularly, about the ability to learn how to confront properly, was something that really stood out to me when I read the information about the term confrontation. How to do that properly really just resonated with me.
Sarah:
Tell us more about that. What did you notice that was different for you?
Michelle:
What resonated with me? I knew that that was difficult. Confrontation was something that was difficult for me at times. I either tend to go on the far left, where I just avoid confrontation at all, or I went to the far right, where I was very aggressive in my confrontation. When I read some of the information, I thought, I really need to be effective, in my confrontation. That really resonated with me.
Sarah:
And that was the goal, then you went into, with classes like, they’re going to teach me something that’s going to be different. This is the thing.
Michelle:
Right. This is what I think I may be missing.
Sarah:
Where did it go from there?
Michelle:
I would say that it … I may have went initially thinking it was all about confrontation, which is something that’s presented later in the class. But, all of the information that was presented prior to the confrontation model really was relevant, and really actually helped me develop the skills necessary, and understand, and connect these skills that are necessary to confront, and how you got to utilize those, and how they connect, and Interline with each other.
Sarah:
Is there anything specific about the other skills that you want to share with us?
Michelle:
I will say for me, it’s just the power of listening. I just brought profession. I learned about myself in that class, that I listen to Solve a lot of times, versus listening. That really helped me shift my mindset.
That particularly, in the personal relationships, they may not want to hear my professional perspective. They may just want to be heard. That really helped me understand. Even though I try to be intentional about that, it just brought another set of refreshing thoughts, that I really need to focus on my interpersonal relationships, making sure that I am just listening to Listen, and be Present, and Connect, versus listening to Solve.
Sarah:
In our previous conversation, you had mentioned that, that aspect, really impacted your relationship with your sister-in-law, your brother’s wife and then, eventually, your nieces. You want to share more about that with us?
Michelle:
Yes. I’ve just … like I said, so many different … so much of the information really impacted that relation. I would start with the idea where they presented that, acceptance is not equal to agreement. That was a very difficult concept for my brain to process, given the situation that I was facing in my mind, if I accepted that, I was actually agreeing with how they were dealing with that, and that was part of the conflict.
Eventually, it took me about two days. The first two days of that class were really wrestling with it. I’m like, no, that’s not a true statement. I kept just rolling, and letting it roll around. Particularly, not allowing my past perceptions to block that out. Just remained open to that idea, and allowing my brain, and my mind, and my heart to process that.
It was probably be like, at the end of the second day, I just … somehow I guess it rolled around long enough, where it actually connected, and I realized that there’s a difference with just accepting where that person is, where they may be, versus accepting how they’re dealing with it. I was able to separate that and, I could see how not being able to accept where they were, meaning that can block your ability to connect, and to actually be empathetic with them.
That was a pivotal shift. First of all, with that relationship with my sister-in-law. Just reflecting on that, and acknowledging that, that was true, and then focusing my energy, and my efforts to connect, versus to just give a message, to a verbal message, was really pivotal in that relationship.
Sarah:
I’m just sitting here absorbing so many things that you shared there. Because I feel like there was an aspect of your personal growth, that had to happen first. That rolling around, that wrestling, that struggling, that engaging your mind, and your heart. Before, you could say, you know what, I’m going to try this, I’m going to do in this relationship, because the relationship is so important to me, that I can make this shift, because it matters.
I feel like there’s a point … like we talk about the skills, and we tell people, just go practice the skills. Start practicing the skills, and then you’ll come to see the impact. But it sounds like for you, there’s also an aspect of, I have to personally grow, and embrace the skills in a different way. If it’s going to be meaningful, if it’s going to connect in that relationship.
Michelle:
Yes. I like the word that you utilize as embrace. I think a lot of times we accept things, but I’m learning that there’s a difference between accepting something, and embracing it.
When you embrace it, you’re leaning into it, it’s a whole different aspect. The need to embrace personal growth as a whole, is very important. How that impacts relationships, and connection overall, is very important.
Sarah:
I almost feel a tug on my heart right now, when you say embrace. Where I feel like except, is something I can rationalize up in my head. I love that you’re distinguishing between those two things, and it feels different for me as we’re talking about it.
Michelle:
For me, it was very different, like you said, except, I can rationalize it, I can process it, but embracing, requires me to lean into it, to work through it, and walk it out. It’s very different.
Sarah:
You mentioned that you are in a profession that aligns with these skills, and that they helped you, but also helped you shift maybe how you think, or help people with your profession. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that?
Michelle:
Yes. I definitely would say, I’ve been in the social service field for over 22 years, and I truly can say that, I believe OCL is one of the most comprehensive proactive approaches to change. OCL is one of the most comprehensive approaches I have seen, that impacts lives. I think the way that comes to me and how it speaks to me… many people show up in counseling, really, if you go to the most common denominator, a lot of times it’s … I can sum it up to identity, and relationships.
They’re dealing with something, or struggling with something regarding their identity, or they’re struggling in relationships, as a result of their identity sometimes. Those two things are very … you see a lot in the counseling field.
I will say that this … our social, and emotional wellbeing is very important, and a lot of times, it’s got to do with those two things, identity and relationship.
For me, what I’ve learned is that, how OCL approaches self awareness, and relationships. It really could … and I’ve seen it be impactful to overall people who are seeking to improve themselves and their relationships.
Sarah:
Could I make the leap, and I guess I’m asking your professional opinion in this question. Could I make the leap, to say that our listening skills, our effective confrontation skills, even taking a look at our individual tendencies, and how we show up. This is something that people can start to use to improve their mental wellbeing. Is that a leap, or can you support that?
Michelle:
Yes. I truly believe you. Like I said, our social, and emotional wellbeing, has a lot to do with, how we see ourselves, how we show up in the world, and how we connect with others. Many of the skills that I learned in OCL addresses all of that information. When we’re doing that, I think it improves our career, our family relationships, all of our interpersonal relationships as a whole.
So yes, I do agree that, utilizing these skills to self-awareness, becoming aware of how we show up, and how other people perceives us, and what challenges may come or arise as a result of that. Then utilizing the skills to work through some of that, I think truly, I can speak personally, and I do believe professionally, it can impact our overall wellbeing.
Sarah:
That is just … I mean, we know mental health issues, are huge issues in society, and probably always have been, but we’re bringing them to light, and we’re openly talking about them. Just the realization that, creating that human connection, and creating that environment where we say that everybody matters, has the potential to impact that.
I’m getting some chills, honestly. I’m like, this is super cool. I feel like it’s one of those things that we know that we know, but to hear your personal experience, but also your professional perspective, really is like, I put some umph behind that.
Michelle:
I truly believe in that. By no means I’m not addressing some of the more deeper mental health issues, but that we do know that, research shows that, if social, and emotional issues are not addressed, and for a prolonged period of time, that’s where we see the more mental health diagnosis.
If we can address these things early on, I truly believe we’ll see a difference in our schools, in our community, and just throughout the world. If we can just get this information, and people could buy in, and embrace what we are learning in OCL.
Sarah:
Thank you for that powerful statement of really what we’re missional about. You’ve embraced this mission of Our Community Listens, so much so that you are adding, being a facilitator to your resume. Tell us more about that.
Michelle:
Yes. As I said, working in a social service field for over 22 years, you experience a lot, hear a lot, you see a lot, you have victories over a lot. But as I spoke early to OCL being the most comprehensive proactive approach, for me, when you are in this field for a long time, you can become emotionally fatigued at times, because of all of the weight that you may experience.
For me, the idea of being able to be a part of giving this gift away to other people, so that they can utilize this, and give it away to other people, and be able to work in a proactive manner is so exciting to me. It’s something that I needed in my life.
I’m excited, I’m encouraged by being able to work from a proactive approach, versus a reactive approach a lot of times. As a licensed professional counselor, you see people way after the fact. To be able to go out into the community, and connect with people, and give these skills early, I think is just an amazing opportunity.
Sarah:
Great. We’re so excited to have you joining our team of facilitators. I like the term facilitator, because I feel like what we do is, we facilitate connection, we facilitate understanding. It’s not like we’re going in and presenting, and telling people. We’re instead engaging with them on a whole different level. I can just see that passion in your eyes, as I get to look at you through the video screen.
I want to shift it back towards your personal relationships. I know that some of the … you’ve been mentioning things about identity, and tendency, and even how that might relate to motive, like how we go into situations. I know you have a special relationship with your nieces. Are you going to tell us more about that?
Michelle:
Yes. My nieces are currently … they are 15, 16, to 18 years old. However, in the last three years, they have experienced a substantial amount of loss. My brother passed in May 2016, their grandparents on their mom’s side, passed in January, and February 2017, and then they just lost their mom in January 19th, 2019.
They have experienced a significant amount of loss, and they are recently joined with me and my parents. We are trying to do everything possible to communicate to them that, they’re loved, that they’re accepted, and that they matter, despite all of the loss that they have experienced, and just going through being a teenager at this time, feeling like you matter, feeling like you’re loved and accepted, it’s very, very, important.
That is my ultimate goal for them, and to believe in me, and to let them know that they can accomplish anything that they put their mind to, despite some of the circumstances and situations that they have experienced in their lives.
Sarah:
What … I don’t know, I just have to pause, because that level of loss, it must feel overwhelming for them. There’s a little light for me, because I’m encouraged to know that they have someone like you, that has that intentionality, being able to be present in their lives.
I have to imagine that as you worked on your relationship with their mother, that they feel supported knowing that they have someone that cares, and is willing to grow with them, now a part of their lives, because they saw you do that with their mum.
Michelle:
I think… I’m so grateful. The timing was very important, like I said, when I went through the class, and how all this happened after the class, and to be able to have that framework, those tools to pull from, was very instrumental.
Because of how our last confrontation went, from there, we truly connected, and she really allowed me in more, which also positioned me to have a clear transition for them to come with us, to be able to make decisions for them in school, and all of that. She’d done a lot of that before she passed.
I think that is instrumental in allowing them to accept this change that, mom was in agreement with this, versus prior to when we were conflicting, it was a different situation. I think just them knowing, and seeing us walk together in the last stages of her life really has helped them, to embrace this from a different perspective.
Sarah:
Sorry. I have some tears in my eyes, because you’re really talking about generational impact as well, that your ability to repair that relationship with their mom, had that… trickle down, is almost not even a powerful enough term, but it had that relational impact for them as well, and for generations. I don’t know what I’m trying to say, but I’m just having this moment of like, they watched that happen, and now that matters in your relationship with them.
Michelle:
Yes. It helps me as well, because when I find myself, one of the things I’ve … another thing that really stood out about OCL that I learned, was about my profile.
Understanding that I am a high S, so I had to definitely have that need to serve a higher purpose. Also, understanding that harmony is so important to me. But one of the things that really stood out to me was that, when I am not in harmonious environments, I become very … I have D tendencies, and become very direct and demanding.
That helped me understand in that relationship with my sister-in-law, what was going on, and so, because I’m trying to create and bring myself into a place of harmony, and create the harmony, so what has happened with understanding?
I used to think that I was just the D, I’ve never been a D, I’ve always been the S, but what happens is when my harmony is not there, I become … I start trying to create it around myself, in a pretty demanding, direct manner. What that has done for me, is to understand that I can be proactive, in my approach to create, and to establishing harmony in my relationships, versus trying to wait to their conflicting, and then trying to create it.
With my nieces, even in those moments, when I find myself being very direct and demanding, when the hormone … I can stop, take a minute, and take a breath, and reflect in understanding, that it is important for me to re-establish these relational patterns, in a very proactive way, versus react.
Sarah:
I feel like that whole statement just brought all of the things that we’ve been talking about together. That like what you know about yourself, and your needs, how you saw that, maybe trying to get those needs met in an ineffective way in the past, realizing the impact on the relationships, working towards that acceptance, and then taking that, almost like that personal power, to make a choice and do something different.
That’s incredible. My next question is, what is your hope, for vision for others that maybe as they grow with Our Community Listens, but, man, I’m still hopeful after this whole conversation. I don’t know if you have additional inspiration for us. Anything you want to share?
Michelle:
I think it just goes Back to what we addressed earlier, the idea of embracing. I think that’s my main thing that I would say to allow me to just continue to lean in, to this process. Even in the challenging times, in the difficult times, in the moments like, I did not execute that well, I did not address that well, but even in that, I think contain a linear, and look for another opportunity to utilize the skills, and the information that you have, and believe that it will impact your life as well as those that are around you. That is the biggest thing that I would say to alumni.
I would also say, I don’t know if this is available to everyone nationally, but I would definitely encourage them to attend, the refresher courses. I know locally in St. Louis, we have these refresher courses, and I am telling you that these refresher courses really has continued my growth.
I went to one just last week, on empathy blockers, and in the class, I can’t say that the filters, barriers, and blockers were something that I was really focused in on, because I probably was getting all these other moments.
But right now this has revolutionized again how I see life, to understand how our belief systems, our thoughts can block, I mean, flat out, kicks something out, a new idea out, a new process out, it won’t even allow it in, and how important that is, and how, again, the importance of opening myself up, processing through, and the few things that I have taught some blockers down in my life recently, and it’s just amazing. The impact, and the outcomes are truly amazing.
Sarah:
I just have to say, Michelle, I am so touched by your vulnerability. Your personal, and professional willingness to say, these are things that have gotten in my way. Even just inspiring us with the recognition that personal growth is a process. We all come across this, any moment of our lives, where we’re like, man, I didn’t realize that one, but that just smacked me hard in the face. You’re just speaking to that in such a way that seems very relatable, and I feel like we wouldn’t be able to connect with that if you weren’t so willing to be so vulnerable and open. I just really want to acknowledge that and appreciate that in you.
Michelle:
Thank you.
Sarah:
On a practical note, I do want to speak to those refresher classes, and our continuous learning sessions. I do feel like, had we give our participants so much information in those three days?
My joke when I’m teaching in classes, like we’re feeding you through a fire hose, and like, man, if you can just get it down to a garden hose, that would be great at the end of three days. But there’s so much in those three days. Then there’s so much that can build off, of those three days.
As we grow as an organization, I’m doing those continuous learning sessions, doing those refreshers, having access to webinars, nationally, man, there’s just always these great opportunities to continue to learn and grow, and to continue to connect with other alumni.
I love that I’m talking to you in St. Louis, Missouri from Michigan, and realize that we all have a shared experience, because we are all human, and everybody matters, and we are all people, and we just want to connect and learn from one another. I’m just so excited about our organization. I’m so excited to meet and talk with you more, and embrace with you as a fellow facilitator and passionate learner. I really enjoyed our conversation today.
Michelle:
Thank you. I did as well. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I’m grateful to be able to share my experiences, and to just speak to the power that lies within this organization and the mission. So thank you.
Sarah:
There’s a lot of power there. Thank you.
Adam:
Thank you for tuning in. Our podcast continues to evolve. This episode subject matter, is what we’re calling engagement. Our goal is to share stories of connection, and inspire alumni, to revisit the skills.
For those who haven’t been through the Our Community Listens training, maybe they will consider making it a priority, to see how it can improve their life, and those around them.
Our next episode subject matter is, education. Join myself, Sarah Weisbarth, and Marsha Burns, who is director of content, quality, and curriculum with our community lessons. We will discuss how these skills apply to leadership and connect everyone to the truly human leadership movement.
If you have any suggestions about subjects for our podcast, feel free to reach out through our Facebook page. If you’re interested in taking a class, visit ourcommunitylessons.org.
Thank you again for listening to our podcast, and don’t forget each word, each action, each silent moment of listening, sends a message. Therefore, you, are the message.
